Darcy Lawler... the mere mention of that referee has had Arthur Summons simmering for nigh on 50 years. Up until, maybe, tomorrow.
"Poor old Norm [Provan] has suffered every time we get together so I thought I might make the big announcement and promise him I'll never bring it up again," Summons chuckles before "The Gladiators" front a special luncheon in Wollongong tomorrow.
But then the diminutive figure, forever etched in rugby league folklore through his muddied embrace with Provan after the epic 1963 grand final, goes silent for a second on the other end of the phone.
"I don't know whether I can," Summons bristles. "Every time I get the shits and I get wound up and wound up and it still hurts.
"It's like having two combatants ... and we were the better side that year.
"We beat them in both rounds, we beat them in the semi-final and went straight into the grand final.
"The bloody penalty count was 18-7, we had a disallowed try where [Peter] Dimond scored and he disallowed it. He nearly sent me off because I abused him.
"Then [Johnny] King's try, you could say yes or no. Again it was controversial and he awarded that try."
St George won the grand final 8-3. It was the most debated decider of their 11-year run.
Lawler was known to like a bet. Wests thought he had backed St George. You know the rest.
And also the tale of the enduring image that emerged afterwards - John O'Gready's shot of Summons and Dragons opposite Provan, which has stood the test of time.
The image is also the inspiration behind yesterday's NRL re-naming of the Provan-Summons Trophy, which will make an on view at the Cutters' luncheon.
"It's iconic and there's no question it's been the catalyst that has brought us together," Summons said.
"It's a bit surreal.
"We didn't know each other apart from being captains of opposite sides, but since then and because of the trophy we've become great friends.
"It's one of those things you can't believe that happened."
So after 50 years - to the minute - Summons and Provan will be reunited on the hallowed patch of the SCG.
Absent will be the near 70,000 which crammed into the ground that day, replaced by the hearty traditionalists who will flock to the old headquarters to watch NRL strugglers St George Illawarra and Wests Tigers do battle on Saturday.
"The poor buggers haven't performed that well, have they? We might be the only ones there," he joked.
Tickets for tomorrow's Cutters luncheon are available for $100 at the Steelers Club reception.
The function will be held at the Centro CBD Function Centre on Stewart Street from 12.30pm-3.30pm, to be hosted by WIN TV's Tim Gilbert.
Comedian Brian Doyle will provide live entertainment.