WHEN Brian Goorjian made his recruitment pitch to a young Shane Froling more than three decades ago, he spoke very little about winning.
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It's ironic given the fact no one in Australian basketball has won with as much bankable consistency in all the years since.
In 1987 though, Goorjian was a rookie coach tasked with filling the void left by the departure of legendary mentor, and eventual Boomers coach, Barry Barnes at the Eastside Spectres.
If that didn't cast a long enough shadow, the bulk of the playing squad had followed Barnes' assistant coach Colin Cadee - uncle of current Bullets sharp-shooter Jason - to his new gig at St Kilda.
At 20, and with the one NBL season under his belt, Froling was set to join the exodus.
"A group of us left the AIS over two years, Darren Lucas, Steve Lunardon and myself," Froling said.
"I'd come in the second year (1987) and was playing under Barry Barnes. He'd been a really good mentor for me and had always looked after me so we were all very loyal.
"We had guys like Brendan Joyce, Alan Black who were very loyal to him. His time at the Spectres finished up and Colin Cadee was Barry's assistant and he ended up going to St Kilda Saints to coach them.
"He took Vince Hinchen, Bruce Bolden, Brendan Joyce and all of us were going to head over to the Saints."
The fact that Froling stayed, and that his sons Sam and Harry are now playing under Goorjian at the Hawks so many years on, is a cool story.
However, not many renditions give due weight to just how big a gamble the decision was Shane's behalf.
"It was a big leap of faith for me because the Cadees were a big, big part of recruiting me from Collingwood out to the Spectres and really developing my basketball life," Froling said.
"Goorj came in and said, 'look, if you stay with me I promise to develop you and make you a better player'.
"We knew he could coach because he'd been at Ballarat for quite a while. We knew he was a great player having watched him play.
"His father [Ed] is a legendary coach in the US and Goorj was sending us over there. It was all a part of his plan to use elite coaches and elite experiences to make us better.
"He made that promise to make us better and any time, anywhere, he'd be available. He'd work us at five in the morning, six in the morning, all hours of the night, and he would teach you the game."
The Spectres went 11-13 in Goorjian first year at the helm, with Lucas named the NBL's Most Improved Player.
They improved to 14-10 the following season and made the finals with an 18-8 record in 1990. It was the beginning of an unbroken 22-year run of playoff appearances for the coach.
It showed all the traits that he continues to base his approach on, something Froling still has insight into via his sons.
"The thing with Goorj is, he's like an addict when it comes to basketball," Froling said.
"He can't live without it and he gets people to play with that passion under him. It's almost like you fall in love with him, you'd go to war for him.
"That's the art of coaching, they'll go to war for you, you've got his back and he's got yours. It's a special thing.
"There's been heaps of guys over the years that have gone to play under Goorjian for less money because you know what he can do for you long-term.
"The other thing about Goorj is there's no bullshit with him."
Froling thrived under those conditions, but he also caught the flip-side after reaching the playoffs in 1990.
"When I left the Spectres, it was heartbreaking but it was all honesty," Froling said.
"Goorj took me out to dinner and said 'I've got a young kid I'm going to start playing and developing and I can't promise you this or that'.
"That kid's name was Tony Ronaldson. I told Goorj 'oh well, I'll just kick his arse' and he said 'good, that's what I want'.
"Tom Maher went to Tasmania and said 'I'll pay you enough money to buy your first house'. Being a kid from Collingwood, I couldn't refuse that.
"I knew I had to go. I was the first one to leave him so it broke my heart and it broke his heart."
It's made a vicarious reunion as Sam and Harry ply their professional trade under Goorjian at the Hawks that much sweeter. It also brings striking sense of deja vu.
Sam was the first player to recommit to the Hawks after all contracts were voided when the club fell into administration.
He had no shortage of suitors, but took leap of faith his father did more than 30 years earlier, not joining an exodus that included the likes Todd Blanchfield, Angus Glover and Sunday Dech,
Goorjian boasts a far heftier resume than he did in 1988 - to the tune of six championships and 20-odd finals appearances - but his pitch to the younger Froling was almost identical.
"It's like history repeating," Froling Senior said.
"Sam was looking at other clubs because they were all chasing him and Goorj walked in and said 'if you stay here with me I'll develop you and make you a better player'.
"I endorsed that a hundred per cent. I said to Sam 'look, I don't know where the club's going, I don't know its status, but I know one thing - Goorjian will make you better.
"When it came to finances, club stability and all that, Sam had to do his own checking, but I said Goorjian will make you a better player."
The proof of that was in the pudding, with Sam enjoying a breakout year in Wollongong that finished with a maiden finals appearance and the NBL Most Improved award.
He joins a not-too-shabby list that includes Lucas and Chris Anstey as players to have claimed that gong under Goorjian's tutelage.
The story continues this season, with Harry linking with Sam and Goorjian in Wollongong.
"Goorj said to me the other week 'I'm recruiting your daughters [WNBL stars Keeley and Alicia] next'," Froling said.
"I look at Harry already, and people are looking at his point production, but I'm actually watching his game and things like his footwork are so much better.
"He's dropped 12-13 kilos, his movement and his understanding is already better. Hopefully he'll have some more 15-point games to go with his other improvements.
"It's just good watching the kids play and there's a bit of pride there with them playing under Goorj who really helped me.
"I've always pushed the kids pretty hard and now they're working under Goorj who first instilled that in me. Thirty years later he's still got that ability for people to want to play for him and give their all.
"Hopefully they help him too. There'd be nothing better than to see them win a championship."
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